Formless: Describe your earliest hip hop memories…
Automator: My earliest hip hop memory would be “Rappers Delight.” I've come from a pop/ soul background as far as music goes. When (“Rappers Delight”) came out I was pretty young… I had heard people rhyming on records a little bit before, but kind of in the RandB sense where they would do a couple bars and then it would become singing song. I didn't know anything about hip hop before that so it was kind of a new experience for me. I thought that (“Rappers Delight”) was pretty cool, but it wasn't my life's work at that point. Then I heard other things like “Do You Like Scratchin'” byMalcom Mclaren and The World Famous Supreme Team and also around that same time movies like Wildstyle and Beat Street were coming out and everything was filtering down to San Francisco. I got really heavily interested and I started DJing which is the connection I had in the whole thing from the beginning.
Talk about your time being on the DJ scene…
When I was in High School I started DJing and going with DJ groups and practicing. We ended up DJing a lot of High School parties, hotel parties, or at friends houses. Out here they really didn't have clubs for under eighteen people or even under twenty-one for the most part. We ended up doing a lot of those parties for a couple of years. At the time I thought I was pretty good at it. I'm a pretty good DJ right now, but not like amazing. During that period of time I was immersed in buying all kinds of records, listening to music and finding out how it all worked. At the same time I was getting into buying (equipment). I got a drum machine and a keyboard to try and make beats. Not so much to make songs, but to play along and work with the turntables. I guess I was fairly successful… in retrospect… it was a learning time… the development stage. In the Bay Area it's always been second to New York in hip hop, in the sense it came out later here, but by the time like ‘86 rolled around we had a lot of things developing that within a year or two would pretty much be the pinnacle of DJing. We had guys like Q-BERT, MIXMASTER MIKE, and other people who people don’t really know about that were doing stuff that wasn't being done anywhere, except maybe a little bit touched upon in Philly by Cash Money and those guys. I've known Q BERT since he was like a Junior or Freshmen in High School and he's kind of the reason I don't DJ (much) no more. I was doing a show in Stockton, California were it was like four or five DJs and this battle in the middle (of the night). It was two man battle and two of the guys DJing were Q BERT and MIXMASTER MIKE… I was watching and I was like, “Damn…” They weren't where they are today, but they were really good. I was just like, “Ya know, I'm never going to be that.” It was also a period time where I wasn't making music, I probably was fooling around, but that's where I wanted to be. (Seeing them) just told me that I was never going to be like that so it inspired me to quit (a lil laughter…)… well I didn't quit, I can still cut, scratch, and do odd stuff, but that wasn't my life's work and that was like a reaffirming day for me.

Have you done cuts on records that you've produced?
I've cut on lots of records actually. I mostly do stuff that moves it along. I don't solo or something. It's like if I was in a band I'd be the rhythm guitar player. Although, truthfully I can scratch better than that, but I just know so many people can scratch A LOT better than that so I don't really end up spending most of my time doing that.

What steps did you take to make the transition from DJ to producer…
It may not seem exactly relevant, but actually my first instrument was the violin. I started playing violin when I was like three, but it changed the way I am musically and effected how I look at music. After that it was turntables and from there I got a Sequential Tom drum machine… which is a company that is out of business now. It was pretty cool. It had eight sounds and played sounds in reverse. Then I had a “delta-lab effectron” which was a two second delay pedal where I could capture things and loop them, but it wouldn't really hold them so it was a one shot sampler delay thing.

Who would be your production influences?
First off, I would say hip hop in general has been a big influence. Just listening to everything. (Especially) hip hop from the years of ‘83 thru like ’91. Most importantly in that time would probably be Mantronix, Bomb Squad, Eric B & Rakim and Boogie Down Productions. A little more towards the end of that it would be Prince Paul, 45 King… when I name all these people they are ones that just stand out in my mind and it's probably because they have more classic songs or at least songs that are classic to me. In addition there's that whole period in time ('83-'91) where my ideas, thoughts and everything were more shaped by what was going on. I'm sure a lot of (more unknown or less popular records and artists with not as much material) in that time had an influence on me. I think Ultra with Critical Beatdown was important. Even some of the stuff that Hurby Luv and Teddy Riley did.

The first thing you put out is known as the first (or at least one of the very first) battle-break records…
The first record I put out was called Music To Be Murdered By and it came out in like ‘88/ ’89. It was the first record that I know of made just for the DJ to rock with. I'm not claiming it's the very first one because at that time a record like that may not have got out that far so someone else might have made one some place. (Mine) got out there for a while and it was the one that Q-Bert and all those guys were using in the beginning.

What was your label called back then?
Homebase.

Being that you didn't know of any other record like that what made you decide to make that your first record to put out?
It was time period when I was heavy into DJing and I was thinking, “This is what I would want to have.” (Also), that was a period of time where the DJ was getting phased out of hip hop… a lot of people were neglecting the DJ. That's when we had this whole battling scene growing and I thought that was something that was missing.

The first record you really are known for is the DR. OCTAGON which wasn't until ‘95 so what was going on between that battle record (’88/ ‘89) and ’95…
There was a lot of things in between there. I put out a bunch of independent records. The first record sold like 8,000 copies which was pretty good at the time. Then I did a couple more records that all sold several 1,000 copies, but nothing like blowing up. Around that time I started working with the Solesides guys and that was like ‘91/ ’92.

Who are some of the artists you were working with in that time period?
Let me put it this way, from ‘88 thru ’93 it was all pretty much a big learning experience. I was still getting my sound together. In between that time I did stuff for Nastymix. I did a few mixes for Criminal Nation and Rodney O… I think. I did some stuff for Hollywood Basic… I mixed some HI C and something on the Organized Konfusion record, but I don't know if it came out. I was working with DJ Shadow. My sound was kind of different and people weren't quite hearing me yet.

How did you know or did you know that DR. OCTAGON was the project to really push and get out there?
At that time, Keith had come to me and Kurt, in about ‘94/ ’95, right after the Four Horsemen came out and he wasn't really doing much. He was there… floundering would be the best word cause his group had kind of broken apart. We helped him work on a demo which would ultimately lead to a deal with Capitol. Which would ultimately lead to him getting dropped from Capitol. Which would ultimately lead to that becoming Sex Style… (On the demo), I mixed it all and did a couple of songs for it. (All together) we knocked about twenty or thirty songs and I only produced about six or seven. Anyway, the deal went to Capitol and they had basically sleazy A&R people. They tried to not pay me and cut me out the mix. They were taking kickbacks from Keith everywhere. It was just bad business. You could see in retrospect that this record was never going to come out cause these guys were just clowns. It became a situation where there was a lot of frustration because I was still paid to mix the record, but I wasn't going to do any (tracks) on the record. However, we had established a working relationship and out of that came the Octagon project.

When the DR. OCTAGON album was done did you think that it was possible for it to be as big as it is?
I think that it came out bigger than probably I assumed. I expected it to be interesting to people and kind of open up their ears and eyes to stuff. It probably did a little bit more than I imagined it would, but it was one of the records that I was feeling would be appreciated by people who wanted to kind of push it a little further along… which is kind of who got it. The audience was always there, but they're much more acknowledged now days. The coolest part is maybe that it opened up the audience a little bit. (Dr. Octagon came out the way it did) because I just wanted to make a record I felt like making. There's also a little point to the record… I was kind of tired of hip hop being kind of stale. I wanted to show people you could rock all kinds of different kinds music to make hip hop. Back in the days Co' Crush (had) “Punk Rock Rap,” Run DMC would be the “Kings of Rock,” LL would be straight drum machines, Beasties would be over some AC/DC or Led Zeppelin type shit, Mantronix would be the electronic/ electro type thing, Eric B would be James Brown, someone else would be dusted… people weren't doing that no more. I just was like I'm going to freak a lot of different styles of music so people could be like “Yeah, I guess you could do that.”

You also brought the violin as a prominent instrument as well?
I think strings are the most expressive form of instrument. By no means am I super string guy, but it's something I like to incorporate whether I sample it, play it, do keyboards off of it, hire people to do it… I just think it comes out really nice.

When you made the A Better Tomorrow project was it intended to be a LP or was it just various songs you had done?
Here's what happened basically. Originally (it) came out on another label and it was really mishandled. In my opinion, (it was) terrible promotion (and) terrible distribution. What happened is I started getting larger other places and they started demanding an album from me. Mind you, they hadn't paid me royalties or anything. It was basically a scum bag label and I won't mention any names cause as I continue the story you'll know why. Then they sued me for seven million dollars because I didn't deliver an album from some breach of contract bullshit. That's when I got all the disclosure and found out they hadn't been paying me and they spent less than $2000 total promoting the record. Including one ad that was $ 1200 (which) was for the label and not for me. I had to get a lawyer and all this stuff and before you knew it cost, it me twenty something thousand dollars and I got the record back. Mind you, this is a record I probably made like two grand on and they stole like seven grand from me basically by not paying me royalties. Long story short, they settled up with me and I got the record back. (Then I had) that record sitting there which cost me a bunch of dough and I'm not a rich man. I'm totally middle-class. I'm now having this record and it never really got it's exposure cause they never did their job. I didn't want to release the same thing so I got some other joints from the same period of time and put it out as a work. I actually sold (the LP) at an EP price cause I didn't want anyone to think I was trying to milk it or something. I'm just trying to get back the legal fees… I didn't want to make money off it… I just wanted to recoup. (It was also like), it was a record for archive purposes and for the purpose of giving the people a glimpse of what was going on at the time. Actually, the truth of the matter is, in two weeks I out sold their full four year run of the record so that should tell you something.

Who were the guys who appeared on that album; Poet and Neph?
They're these two guys from Staten Island, who I haven't been working with recently, but back then and even a little later on I always tried to help them with their demos and they always tried to work with me. I think they're really talented, but they never quite bubbled over the surface. It's one of the situations where it was some stuff I liked back then. I think they did some really cool stuff and if it gives them a little light that's cool too.

If we were in the studio with you what would we see you using?
Pro-tools…

Any particular pieces you'd like to add to your studio arsenal?
Not specifically, but I always like the new keyboards with the real wacked out sounds. I like the effect units that do things really weird. We're in that state of time where it's not really financially feasible to sample all the time. I might still sample drums and stuff, but I try to get instruments. It's good to have more instrumental sounds and pallets to work with. I've been collecting old gear for a long time now. Since about ‘92 or ’93 I've been collecting gear that they used to make like Beatles records, James Brown records or whatever. Old amps, old tape delays and old keyboards and I've been using them in the way they were used then, but on Pro-tools. I don't want to make it sound vintage, but just be able to get those sounds out. Sound generating devices of the weird sort… that's kind of what I'm in to. For the most part I don't even know what they are until I run into them and I'm like, “Wow, that's cool…”

Any particular artists that you'd like to hear on your tracks?
Yeah, definitely. Actually, to tell the truth, I'd like to see Jay Z on a track. I think he's real hot. People don't realize, in my opinion, he's probably one of the best emcees out there. I pretty much get the opportunity to work with most of the DJs that I really enjoy. I like working with Sadat X. I've worked with him before, but I always think he's a really great emcee. I've always liked what Nas did before. I always thought Xzibit was hot and I kind of think some of his beats on his new album didn't suit him as well as some other things could've.

What are some of the upcoming projects you have going?
I got a record coming called The Gorillaz. That's going to be pretty hot. It's like an all animated band and you can check them out at www.gorillaz.com. I'm working on a Nathaniel Merriweather record called Music To Make Love To Your Old Lady By. That's an instrumental, kind of mellow… you put it on when it's time to get busy type record. Me and (Prince) Paul are going to start the next Handsome Boy record soon. It won't come out for like a year, but we are starting it soon. Me and El P are probably going to start our project in May. It's not a rhyming record. El's not rhyming on it. Someone else may rhyme on it. El might rhyme on it like once, but that doesn't seem like the direction we're going.

What is your affiliation with 75 ARK?
I own a really small piece of it and hopefully more at some time (cue: laughter).

When I first heard about your affiliation with the label I would try to envision the artists over your production, but we didn't hear that with some of the projects (ex: Encore and Anti Pop). Will we see you collaborating more with the 75 ARK artists in the future?
Yeah, I plan to do some stuff with The Coup. I was planning to do stuff with Encore, but they finished the record while I was out of town. I had originally planned to do one song, but it just didn't end up happening but hopefully it'll happen on the next one. I'm going to do some stuff on Perseveres record. I think he's nice.

Anything particular you want to speak on that we may have missed?
No, not really. I just wanna say that I hope I can continue to make new stuff and get it out there and people will listen to it…


——————————————————————————–

AUTOMATOR DISCOGRAPHY

THE AUTOMATOR-MUSIC TO MURDER BY {BREAK RECORD} (HOMEBASE ‘88/’89)

DR. OCTAGON-EARTH PEOPLE [W/RMX] B/W NO AWARENESS, BARE WITNESS 12" (BULK ‘95)

DR. OCTAGON LP (BULK ’95)

DR. OCTAGON-INSTUMENTALYST [BONUS BEATS: TRICKNOLOGY 101 & CATAPILLAR] (BULK '95)
DR. OCTAGON-BLUE FLOWERS, [AUTOMATOR RMX], [KUTMASTER KURT MEDIATION RMX FEAT. DJ REVOLUTION], [PRINCE PAUL RMX] 12" (BULK ‘96)

DR. OCTAGON-BLUE FLOWERS (W/VARIOUS RMXS) B/W HALFSHARKALLIGATORHALFMAN (BULK ’96)

AUTOMATOR-A BETTER TOMORROW EP (UBIQUITY ‘96)
A)A BETTER TOMORROW
B)A BETTER TOMORROW PT. 2
C)THE TRUTH (ALL THOSE LIES)
D)4:17
E)SLEEP

BOMBAY THE HARD WAY SOUNDTRACK (MOTEL ’98)

HANDSOME BOY MODELING SCHOOL [AUTOMATOR/PRINCE PAUL]-SO HOW'S YOUR GIRL? (TOMMY BOY ‘99)

AUTOMATOR-A MUCH BETTER TOMORROW LP (75 ARK ’00)
A)A BETTER TOMORROW (W/KOOL KEITH AS SINISTER 6000)
B)KING OF NEW YORK (W/KOOL KEITH)
C)I WANT DA MIC (W/KOOL KEITH)
D)WILING (W/NEPH THE MADMAN)
E)CARTOON CAPERS (W/KOOL KEITH)
F)4:17
G)BUCK BUCK (W/POET)
H)THE TRUTH
I)IT'S OVER NOW (W/KOOL KEITH)
J)A BETTER TOMORROW PT 2 (W/KOOL KEITH)

DELTRON ZERO-VIRUS B/W THINGS YOU CAN DO 12" (75 ARK ‘00)

DELTRON ZERO-3030 LP (75 ARK ’00)

INFESTICONS-HERO THEME [W/AUTOMATOR RMX] (BIG DADA '00)

GORILLAZ-TOMORROW COMES TODAY [PROD BY AUTOMATOR/CO PRO TOM GIRLING & JASON COX] (FEAT. DEL)
A)TOMORROW COMES TODAY
B)ROCK THE HOUSE
C)LATIN SIMONE
D)1203

-MISC PRODUCTION
DR. OCTAGON-3000 RMX
CORNERSHOP-SLEEP ON THE LEFT SIDE [RMX]
CORNERSHOP-CANDYMAN [RMX]
UNKLE-LOST ORGY (W/ENCORE) [RMX]
PIZZICATO FIVE-LOVE'S THEME [RMX]
MISS MODULAR-STEROLAB [RMX]
EEELS-MY DESCENT INTO MADNESS [RMX]
JACK DRAG-?
CARL STEPHENSEN-?
AIR-?
PRINCE PAUL-BEAUTIFUL NIGHT [AUTOMATOR RMX] (TOMMY BOY '97)
JON SPENCER BLUES EXPLOSION-ATTACK, ETC… [7 TRACKS PROD/MIXED] (ACME '98)
ROB SWIFT-THIS IS OUR DAY [RMX] (ASPHODEL '98)
MEDESKI, MARTIN, & WOOD-NOCTURNE [RMX] (BLUENOTE '98)
DEPECHE MONDE-ONLY WHEN I LOSE MYSELF [RMX] (MUTE '98)
HERBIE HANCOCK-FUNKHUNTER [RMX] (VERVE '98)
FEEDER-DRY [RMX] (ELEKTRA '99)
BEASTIE BOYS-LIMERICK FILE [RMX] (CAPITOL '99)
SUPER COLLIDER [RMX] (LOADED RECORDS ‘99)
CIBO MATTO-KING OF SILENCE RMX/SUNDAY MORNING PT. 1 (WARNER BROTHERS ’99)
MIXMASTER MIKE-SURPRIZE PACKAGE [RMX] (ASPHODEL ‘99)
DEL-IF I MUST RMX (HEIRO ’00)
PRODIGY [RMX]

-ADDITIONAL RARITIES
1)Few indie 12"s between ‘89 and ’95

-PROJECTS MIXED
KOOL KEITH-SEX STYLE DEMOS
PRIMAL SCREAM