The first of Sumo’s interviews from his recent holiday in the Big Apple is a corking two parter with the hottest names on the underground scene right now; namely Vast Air Kramer and Vordal Megala collectively known as Cannibal Ox. Whilst chilling out before doing the soundcheck for their appearance at Leo’s Lounge, Vast, Vordal and Atoms Family deejay Sips One chat with sumo about where they’re coming from and where they’re headed….

Erm Can you introduce yourself please.

I’m Vast Air of Cannibal Ox y’know, Atoms family representing Def’initive Jux.

OK. Now the first time I’d ever heard of you guys was on the Foolblown “Inside out” compilation -

Wow!

Which is like an internet based label/distributer based in texas right?

Yes, yes!

And y’know I’ve been going round New York this week trying to find decent hiphop like the Atoms Family “Prequel” album - and KMD reissues ‘n that - I could find stuff by artists from Canada and all over but I had a real hard time finding New York hiphop actually in New York. Would it be true to say that New York (and by “New York” I mean the industry and the media) does not love it’s own?

Uh….I would say that’s more of a bold statement. I think New York loves it’s own. I think new York Supports it’s own. I think in certain situations due to like certain types of marketting or certain ways that people strategise putting their records out is what hinders it. And what hurts it from getting the certain people - I don’t certainly think it’s a New York thing y’know…I just think in a way, in certain situations, people just make bad moves hence noone gets to get their record….bad business moves…


…there’s a huge love connection because we know we have the strongest underground scene…

OK, Business moves…As I say, I first heard of you from Foolblown so how did you get from Foolblown to Def Jux - Was Def Jux pre-existent to that?

Yes it was and Foolbown was something I did just out of the love of hiphop - just off of the love of, there’s a compilation being made, someone is interested in my music being a part of it so why not ya’kna’mean? It’s exposure, it’s a peaceful thing…everyone comes away with something….and it’s good for the benefit of promotion because promotion is the strongest thing you can have when your selling anything. So doing that compilation was something I did because it was gonna be profitable to the atoms family and to my name also.

OK, so in terms of the artists then - I mean, I’d got the impression that in terms of the media there was no love but in terms of artists, what would you say the vibe is between different crews in New York?

It’s real vibrant. You’re gonna see some crews tonight! Who’s coming tonight? Stronhold ‘ll be in here tonight, Sienz of Life, Micranots - right now there’s a huge love connection because we know we have the strongest underground scene. We know it - to be bold and step on some toes! We know that it’s tightest here. I’ve been to other Eastcoast spots, I’ve been to Midwest spots, it’s tight here and it can get tighter here and stay tight -

But do you feel the best will rise to the top because I know the talent’s here but talent is not what I’ve been hearing on the radio ‘n that -

I think people will - like I just said, they’re making better business moves - I know we’re making better business moves. So you’re gonna see and hear us! I dunno, I can’t speak for the next crew that only hits this circuit - I’m doing a show this Sunday where I’m the only hiphop group - you see what I mean? I’m hitting a whole new circuit that’s gonna bring me the more people; that’s what it’s about.

Would you be interested in collaborating with a non hiphop artist?

Yeh I would.

Are you into drum & bass or anything?

I’m into all types of music. I’m into good music - like if I feel it, I’m playing it - it can be Beethoven, it can be Jimmy Hendrix it could be Nas, you know what I mean; if I’m feeling it I’m playing it.

So do you listen to much rap yourself?

Uh yes I do. I Listen to enough rap. I create rap. I have a very….a very…diverse -

Eclectic?

ECLECTIC! That is the word! An eclectic taste - I like Jazz, I have rock, I have rock’n’rol - I have all types of music..


…I’m sure there’s someone out there that’s nice but I just don’t know who they are; it’s that simple. Talent is everywhere y’know…

OK, I’ve been listening to your Def Jux compilation this week and man, it’s nasty! Hehehehe, it’s raw! And a lot of New York stuff is definitely raw - pushing the boundaries of… “taste & decency” - How far can you push it - I mean, where do you think rapwill be in ten years from now when you’ve got artists like Necro now? [people laughing] I mean, are we one step away from “Snuff rap?” [More laughter]”

I mean, think about “Planet Rock”…The Soulsonic Force y’know, look at the stuff they were making you know and then look at Organised Konfusion, look at A Tribe Called Quest - there’s gonna be people that come and their influence helps the art to grow - y’know whether it be a more jazzy influence or a more rock influence -

Yehyeh, I can appreciate that and in terms of technique but I’m thinking more in terms of subject matter and frames of reference.

Subject matter is open right now. Some people are good with detail in their rhyme schemes so that’s gonna help them flash off as being a good emcee…Topics are open, there’s things to say, there’s things people are still afraid to say but y’know… I don’t think there’s anything new under the sun. I think what you got from Muddy Waters you can get from Cannibal Ox too y’know what I mean? If that energy is there it really doesn’t matter who made the music. If those same struggles exist and someone’s just good at what they do then it’s just gonna be hot - ‘cus you got Muddy Waters and people like JimmyHendrix - all of these geniuses and they did what they do in their field but it can draw other people into that field if they’re not even into it.. If you wasn’t even into guitaring and hearing guitar riffs and then you hear Jimmy you’d be like “yo!!!” ya’kna’mean? He did it! He went somewhere musically and it pulled someone - that’s what we tryin to do as far as my crew. Most of us happen to be from New York, or live in New York but not all of us are from New York you know. Some of us are from Boston like my man Mr Lif. The Mhz. Are from Ohio - but I do understand what you’re saying; that aggression, that hard…

Well yeh, look at it this way. At the end of the ‘80s/early nineties, 2 Live crew was “Offensive” yeh….NWA was considered offensive or “Controversial” and you play that stuff now and it doesn’t have the same effect. But you’ve got someone like Necro and people are definitely getting NASTY!

I mean “Nasty” is basically…I dunno, that’s like a perception because talking about murder and drugs and violence and then talking about all of that with a little sex sprinkled on it? It’s all still the same…Some people glorify some things, some people just build about the truth or that which is evident. Topics are open right now as far as art is concerned. We’re gonna be bringing up all types of things. We mostly bring up what’s close to us, what we can comprehend, what we go through but yeh..topics are open.

So the album?

The album is done actually and it’ll be out may 15 and it will be in stores… It’s a powerful album…

I believe Def Jux came over to England a few weeks ago - to London? Were you a part of that?

Yes, yes. We went to London and we did a couple of shows. One at the Scala and some other - like a festival, “All Tomorrow’s parties” Festival?

How was it - how was the audience response?

It was fun. One of them was a hiphop show and one of them was a place where we were the only hiphop so I saw like both ends and it was cool. We got a good response from both. I’ve been to London before and since they speak English they’re very receptive to the lyrics. It’s almost like being in America.

Did you have any time to check out some UK hiphop?

Yes yes. I’ve heard some. Honestly I don’t know any that I like right now hehehhe -

Is that a taste thing or simply a question of what ou’ve had access to?

I’m sure there’s someone out there that’s nice but I just don’t know who they are; it’s that simple. Talent is everywhere y’know.

Have you ever tried to like take the bird’s eye view or the outsiders’ view of New York?

Nah I haven’t. I’ve always felt like I was in the middle of new York and I was trapped here FOREVER and there’s just nothing I can do - but I’ve travelled - I travel a lot! I’ve been out of the country many times….I’ve been all over the Eastcoast and the Midwest…I have respect for new York ‘cus I’ve been other places - and I grew up here so home is home; you don’t really shit on your home.

What’s the best advice or direction you’ve received so far?

Any advice? Ummmm, work hard man ‘cus noone’s gonna give it to you so just work hard - I’ve been told that.

Top Billin!!! I'd like to say “Peace” to Vordal, DJ Sips One right here, Alaska, cryptic One my manager - and here's Vordal for you -

[Vordal] I’m Vordal, Vordal Megala from Cannibal Ox, representing from Uptown born and raised! Came From Harlem where I met Vast my rap partner. We came up with the Atoms family ‘n things - you ever heard of them? We came up under that. We been rhyming for about ten years together and for the last three years we finally got the opportunity to work together as a group you know what I’m saying? ‘cus we came from a whole coalition and now we just a duo. So we got that opportunity and we formed Cannibal Ox through the proposal of El-P coming to us saying he wanted to lace production for us. We’ve just been doing that for the past two years and we been recording for like a year ‘n change and we’ve finished the album “The cold vein” which is a concept that came from like using a vein as a term as us being blood-cells in a vein trying to get through it you know and like peeping the movement on the streets from the viewpoint of that vein. We got the “Cold” to represent the temperature, the levels of what we going through in that vein you know what I’m saying? And then we’ve just been collabin, just making tracks and performing, promoting, doing our thing, meeting a lot of open-minded people from different aspects of music and just speaking to people - like you - got any questions?

So tell me more about the creative relatinships and processes within the Atoms family -and Can. Ox?.. -

[Vordal] Yeh, there’s been projects been made separately like Vast - and we both do Atoms tracks as well as Cannibal Ox tracks forever - but the only tracks that’s been made is always family orientated in some sense.



What would you say is your mission if you have one?

[Vordal] I would say….I dunno, I just wanna keep writing man I just want to keep writing and stay focused with that. And just keep dropping that food for peple to eat up! We try to keep on certain levels of having fun and be conscious at the same time - that’s about it - I try to maintain. Word.

[Vast] Word. We love life yo! We’ve got close friends, We try to love life and live y’know.

[Vordal] It’s a secret society

[Vast] hehehe - it’s just a secret society of people who appreciate just peace man -

[Vordal] That’s what Our community is all about man…just lounging man -

[Vast] We know how to handle the knuckleheads when they come! We know how to handle the negative but we don’t wanna do that! We never wana do that but we will protect ourselves when we have to because we grown men you know what I’m saying? But yo, we all about peace. Man. We’re all about having fun and just seeing the next day and getting enlightened man - it’s like I like looking at my neice’s smile yo! I like just enjoying that pure moment of a young kid who don’t know how to lie, don’t know how to steal, don’t know how to - you know what I mean? It’s just a peaceful being yo…


…we came from a whole coalition and now wejust a duo. So we got that opportunity and we formed Cannibal Ox through the proposal of El-P coming to us saying he wanted to lace production for us…

When you’re performing on Stage, how do you feel - like vulnerable? Enpowered? What?

[Vordal] Yeh yeh definitely! I feel like I be blacking out sometimes! - You ever heard that term - hey you know. It’s like a performance zone you know what I’m saying; you getting into your lyrics, you getting into the music and you zone out! That’s all I can do when it comes to performing. But yeh, I do feel exposed definitely - Brothers be mad sherbed up and things! Heheheheheh!

[Vast] heheheh I don’t feel nuttin’ man - I just hop on that stage DUH DA DAH! Nah but seriously, I’m just getting prepared to just zone out. I’m just getting prepared to blackout and fall into my lyric meditation. I know the joints I’m doing, I love the beats that I’m going to do them on - what else is there? I got friends family here and I’m making money, I’m zoning out - Imma just have fun and have a good show I’m feeling this stage right here - it’s nuts - we gonna do our thing tonight!

[Vordal] No doubt. That’s the ill stage - that’s an intimate stage right there. Up in Leo’s Lounge with my man Dino!

Hehehhee! When will yu two consider yourselves to be a success?

[Vordal] I wuld say “Success” would be determined as -

[Vast] It’s more than survival - you got a house, you got a car, y’know - you’re not stressing bills, - not millionaires but not bums. We’re two humble cats we just wanna be able to live good enough to survive and do our thing. I think we’ll be there in a couple of years - it’s not hard. A time when we don’t have to stress over every move. Stress….sWe should be there in a couple of years because we’ve put in a lot of work. We’ve been doing this for many years together.

What was it in the first place that made you say “yeh, I want to do this?”

[Vast] It’s a childhood passion that turned into a job. If I was going to have to do something then Imma do what I love Right?

[Vordal] We came up from comic books, sci-fi flicks and things to that nature and that’s what grafted and crafted our imagination for the raps I feel. And when we started it was just a hobbey thing - we wasn’t thinking about making money of it or supporting ourselves with it. We always had an independent mind with it - we was always on the streets and going to performing clubs - The Nuyorican Poets Café right on 3-rd Street right there in Alphabet City - that’s where we was at all the time trying to get performances and that’s how we established our performance zone and all those things..


…We try to be more distinctive on how we pick up on the godly things and things beyond our understanding…

And do you think you’ll be able to balance the artistry and the industry?

[Vordal] And make compromises you saying? Yeh there’s certain compromises but we use them to make balances for everything - we’re coming up through some raw times man - not having money and just being established financially - we got a lot of family around us and a lot of peple supporting us and we real humble so we just accepting everything as it comes. We just supporting each other and trying to get shows out there - we’re just heads just trying not to be stressed y’know. Certain things do stress a head tho y’know.

Drugs in hiphop yeh, it’s something that seems to go in and out of fashion in hiphop’s spotlight -

[Vast] hehehehehhe

There’s the purist movement that says “No drink, no drugs, “ and then you’ve got the Eminems, the Redmans, and the Xzibits high on Shrooms ‘n that - where do stand on this -

[Vast] Man I’m drugged up right now man!!! Let me tell you somemat man. That’s a lifestyle. First of all, that’s a straight up lifestyle that has nothing to do with hiphop. People might try and make it “hiphop” they might try and imply it’s “hiphop” but it’s not. Some people are sober: some peple are not. Do you, if I like fat greenery and a great brown leaf, don’t get mad at me! If someone wanna smoke a lil’ Cheebas or drink a lil or urbs - or whatever people do to pain kill, yo man, respect that person’s boundaries. - It’s not like I’m “Yo you’re sober! You’re Sober! Urgh! Kill him!” - We aint like that but we don’t like when people come on some [In a winging tone] “I don’t curse! I don’t smoke! I don’t drink!” - well OK, what else don’t you do!? Who cares, get the fuck off the stage! Hehehe!

OK, going on from that question about lifestyle - let’s talk religion - two of my fave artists recently have been Braille and Labtekwon. Braille’s a white Christian due

[Vast] Wow!



And Labtek’s reppin’ The Nation of Gods and Earths. I think they’re both incredible artists but it screws with my mind yeh with all these opposed value systems - do you subscribe to any particular value system yourselves?

[Vast] Yes and no. I believe I’m a spiritual person but I left religion at the age of 19. I believe in God and I believe that there’s such a thing as a spiritual essence that makes us what we are but religion is twisted and confusing so I left it alone. I’m more of a…I like to create theories - I’m a philosopher you know. I’m not on a book , thinking that every sentence in it is 100% true - I’m not on that. I’m into some of that is true and you can connect a lot of that with more other things that are true but that’s it; it’s not the end-all of all. That’s where I stand; I dunno where Vordal stands? I mean I know where he stand but I’d rather let him answer that.

[Vordal] It’s pretty much the same thing as Vast laid it down -

[Vast] Yeh! Yeh!

[Vordal] It’s just more spiritual than anything -

[Vast] yeh We’re gonna deal with religion - we did that!

[Vordal] We try to be more distinctive on how we pick up on the godly things and things beyond our understanding.

[Vast] You’ll hear Allah, you’ll hear Jah, you’ll hear Jesus - I talk on - I bring ‘em all up! You’ll hear Neptune - you’ll hear it all b! You’ll hear thor - because I studied most of them and it thrills me that they’re all different but yet all the same so I deal with none; I just learn from all of them. We just students of life really.

So I take it from that that you’d have no problem sharing a stage or working with people who subscribe to other belief systems?

[Vast] No, not at all. I work with people of different nationalities - why would I segragate a belief? Unless their belief is harming me - if it’s not harming me or anyone close to me I’m going to work with them. They can keep they belief and do whatever they wanna in their spare time.


…Word. We love life yo! We’ve got close friends, We try to love life and live y’know…

[Cannibal Ox/Hanger 18/Atoms Family's deejay returns from the bar with a drink for me - cheers man, I owe you one!!] Sips, can you remember your first mix?

[Sips] My first mix? My first pair of doubles, my first two records were these Run DMC records basically.

What’s the most extreme thing you’ve ever tried to pull off?

[Sips] Hmmmmm [at this point, the club's deejay fucks up and the music crashes] - I think that was it man! That's my best mix - nah, I basically had doubles of some like very fast drums. I tried to slow them down and make them like into a hiphop beat. It sounded kinda like a merge of Jungle and hiphop. I did it one time during a show…I was a little bit drunk that night but it came out good.

Do you subscribe to the titles “Deejay” or “Turntablist?”

[Sips] I guess I consider myself both. I guess if you consider yourself a “turntablist” then you’re automatically a “Deejay.” -

[Vast] I’m a rapper and an emcee -

[Sips] Whatever that means?

[Vast] Yeh, whatever that means… It’s just slang or terminology - he’s nasty on the ones and twos and that’s why he’s behind us two and that’s how it goes down on the one and two! Heheheh.

Any mix tapes out?

[Sips] Right now I have no mixtapes out but I will hopefully have by the summer time. I’ve never had the actual equipment to put together mixtapes professionally, I’ve only concentrated on just having stuff that sounds good for individual shows or just routines or just for fun basically. I’ve never decided to put my marketing genius into work hehehhe…

So what’s your day job?

[Sips] My day job is…I work in a company; I do their accounting. I’m not an “accountant” but I do accounting type work.

Would you like their to be a point where you could give up the day job -

[Sips] That point is within sight. That point is coming up soon.

Is that a happy thought?

[Sips] It’s a very happy thought. At the same time it’s a tough decision to make to just give up something that’s just so steady and solid and set but I’d rather do something that’s the fun of my life.

He’s on in the background right now - the new KRS - Have you heard the album? What do you think of it?

[Sips] Unfortunately I haven’t heard the new album man - I’m just a deejay - I’m not the kind of deejay who heard every single thing or who has every single thing. But yo, this the KRS album? What do I think? Sounds dope!



It has come to my knowledge that when out with the Def Jux crew last week some no-mark moron assaulted Vordal leaving him with a broken arm and jaw. I don’t know (or want to know) the hows and whys surrounding this sad news but I would like to convey my sympathies to Vordal and wish him a speedy recovery. Cannibal Ox’s debut album “The cold vein” is now out and it’s a test on your mental stamina that’s as dope as it is demanding. If you haven’t already done so, you need to cop this classic in the making PDQ because it’s going to have you feeling reverberations and repercussions for a good while to come! Thanks to Vast, Vordal and Sips for chatting with me.